Benzema had a goal ruled out in the 2022 UCL final in a similar way.
Two LFC players converged on the ball and both touched it, and it deflected into Benzema’s path. He was offside and the LFC touches were deemed deflections rather than deliberate plays on the football.
Not sure what the ruling is on the offiside but at least they were consistent in that they drew the line on Micky at the point of contact from Porro. If that against us I would say it fair.
Kulu on the pen
When asked after the game whether he felt he should have been a penalty in his favour, he said: "I don’t remember. I just play. If I fall down there’s a reason why I did it. I don’t remember if it was or not."
The refs got both decisions right. The pen would have been soft as anything if it was given.
We all moan about if it was given against us.
It’s definitely a pen on Kulusevski. Without the knock on his ankle he gets the ball properly.
Every post match thing I’ve seen from pundits have said it’s a pen.
I think the scrutiny is so high now because VAR has eliminated the accepted margin for error, that officials are hiding behind each other to avoid criticism. If an on field ref allows VAR to make the decision then the criticism, should it be wrong, is fired at Stockley Park. Equally VAR officials are letting things go by using the 'not clear and obvious' excuse when in actual fact, it's just about avoiding criticism.
So what we're now seeing is VAR only overturning the blatantly obvious decisions and on field refs hardly making any critical decisions at all. That's led to a standard drop amongst all officials because they can't make hard decisions themselves.
Then there's linesman. Their ability to correctly call offsides has gone because they're used to keeping the flag down. If an offside attack isn't called and they then get a corner from which they score from, it's an unfair situation.
The whole thing is a total mess. I was one of those that thought VAR was a good thing but I've completely changed my mind now. I've really had enough of it. Football is so much worse now than it used to be.
Ange is right. The reals refs are no longer on the pitch. They're just figures that represent the real decision makers, 100 miles away on a computer.
And specific to the incidents you speak of, I can see why that was given offside because although they played the ball, they didn't actively look to pass in that direction. They were deflections on the way to getting to VDV. If Tomiyasu had booted the ball and it rebounded against Gabriel and into his path, you'd have a case but it kind of deflected off both. That said, Romero has a point. We had exactly the same circumstance against West Ham and the goal stood so even though I can see why it's not given as a goal, there's no consistency.
I'm not sure if I'm the only who has seen this, but I think the biggest error by the ref / VAR was romero's header off the post.
Watch the highlights below. The arsenal defender turns away from the ball and pushes Romero out of the way as he is heading the ball, which means he heads it later than he intends to. There is absolutely no intention to play the ball, he's just focussed on pushing romero.
I know it sounds petty, but honestly watch the replay on the highlights below (from the camera in the goal) and tell me how that isn't a foul?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwvRYMuH4Ew
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm not sure if I'm the only who has seen this, but I think the biggest error by the ref / VAR was romero's header off the post.
Watch the highlights below. The arsenal defender turns away from the ball and pushes Romero out of the way as he is heading the ball, which means he heads it later than he intends to. There is absolutely no intention to play the ball, he's just focussed on pushing romero.
I know it sounds petty, but honestly watch the replay on the highlights below (from the camera in the goal) and tell me how that isn't a foul?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwvRYMuH4Ew
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about contact with the ball. It's very similar to the one against Arsenal a couple of seasons back when Son or Kane was pushed to the ground before they could get a header off. Might have been Rob Holding. The difference is that Romero got his header off. If he'd gone up for it and not got his shot in, it might have been given. It's the same principle as a player staying on his feet, like Kulu. You get nothing for honesty these days.
Get what you mean fridge, but Romero ends up heading the ball later than he meant to. Which means the ball hits the post, rather than going in. When he heads it he has been pushed out of the position he would have been in - it just feels like a mugging!
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 2 minutes ago
Get what you mean fridge, but Romero ends up heading the ball later than he meant to. Which means the ball hits the post, rather than going in. When he heads it he has been pushed out of the position he would have been in - it just feels like a mugging!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep it does. But like a player through on goal, if he's clipped and goes down, he'll get a pen. If he's clipped but gets his shot off, he won't get it. The rules suck.
A block is counted as a "save", so no real control of how you play the ball. Refs should consider speed of shot, distance, chance to react and decide if the blocker has a reasonable opportunity to make a controlled play of the ball.
We had one this season where Beto cut out a square pass and played the ball 40 yards to Nketiah. Even this was deemed a deflection rather than a controlled action.
With the Kulu penalty shout, he changed direction and it was more a "coming together" than anything. Trossard didn't initiate contact, so once the ref doesn't give it VAR shouldn't. I feel his dive earlier in the game probably counted against him, and Maddison didn't help the situation with his dive. On the subject of Maddison, how bad was he? Probably the worst player on the pitch and his play acting to try and get Tomiyasu sent off wasn't very convincing at all. He will be lucky to get in the England squad even with 26 places.
Kulu's defo wasn't a penalty.
The guy after him was cleanly tackled by Rice.
VDV was offside.
We were the better team by far and it wasn't because of VAR/ ref why we won
VAR will cost most teams at some point. Yes it is pants an my opinion it should not be a part of football. It's ruined the match experience for most fans and we cannot enjoy the game for what it is anymore.
Having said that we cannot become reliant on VAR to give us the outcome we want. It will never work like that unless you are one of the favoured few teams. .... we know who they are.
Instead we should focus on why we are losing games and shipping goals and that is 100% at Anges door.... he needs to stop being stuborn and fix it else I fear for him and we will be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.
Actually I’ve just seen the Bowen goal that was similar in the West Ham game. Difference was he was miles inside when the shot was taken. Not sure what Romero has seen there unless he doesn’t know what offside actually means.
Onside, not inside. Damn autocorrect
comment by JimmyGreaves (U21183)
posted 34 minutes ago
VAR will cost most teams at some point. Yes it is pants an my opinion it should not be a part of football. It's ruined the match experience for most fans and we cannot enjoy the game for what it is anymore.
Having said that we cannot become reliant on VAR to give us the outcome we want. It will never work like that unless you are one of the favoured few teams. .... we know who they are.
Instead we should focus on why we are losing games and shipping goals and that is 100% at Anges door.... he needs to stop being stuborn and fix it else I fear for him and we will be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's about 3 threads discussing Spurs/Ange tactics etc. Feel free to contribute on those,
This one is about refereeing and VAR.
As far as I understood it, if the defender makes a deliberate action i.e. tried to block/tackle the ball, then the player cannot be offside. Tomiyasu deliberately did that, its not like the ball just hit him.
The fact this weren’t really discussed or highlighted is a problem
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 38 minutes ago
Actually I’ve just seen the Bowen goal that was similar in the West Ham game. Difference was he was miles inside when the shot was taken. Not sure what Romero has seen there unless he doesn’t know what offside actually means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems a bit daft to to me.
A player can get a full block on a shot and that is not considered as deliberate playing of the ball? And who decides when you have full control.
Ive always thought that an offside player tapping in a rebound is hardly fair. The ball isnt meant for him, its a shot, it rebounds off keeper or post, away from the goal to someone who taps it is. Never thought that as fair. The law is an ass
It does boil my pissss when a ref bottles a decision like Oliver did and to be fair to Spurs we have been on the wrong end of quite a few marginal calls this season (1 penalty before yesterday is testament to that). Why isnt Rice even getting booked for that. It's just reckless. Why wasnt he booked earlier when he blatantly kicked the ball away, right in front of the ref. Refs
comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 11 minutes ago
As far as I understood it, if the defender makes a deliberate action i.e. tried to block/tackle the ball, then the player cannot be offside. Tomiyasu deliberately did that, its not like the ball just hit him.
The fact this weren’t really discussed or highlighted is a problem
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. there was 8-10 yards between Porro and that block so time to react.
But the fact it wasnt even part of the VAR review is what confuses me. Don't they have to consider the deliberate (or not) nature of the action that lead the ball to be at VDVs feet.
Indeed. there was 8-10 yards between Porro and that block so time to react.
_____
So less than a wall for a free kick?
I think that would be a poor interpretation of what Tomiyasu tried to do, an attempted block from a shot shouldn't count as him trying to play the ball or whatever. Its not like the Lovren incident where he went to clear the ball and miskicked it.
I have always been on the record regarding close decisions, VAR and offsides that I don't think the technology has the margin of error to say that offsides as close of that they can say are definitively offside.
I think the Kulu one was a penatly, but it really wasn't helped by Maddison continuing his clown act. I very much hope he is dropped.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 30 minutes ago
Indeed. there was 8-10 yards between Porro and that block so time to react.
_____
So less than a wall for a free kick?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, well done You're clever !
Oliver is a well known Newcastle fan, so no surprise he didn't want to give us the penalty, even though it was clear as day, given the Toon could potentially catch us in the table.
The Kulu pen incident is 100% given to Varpool or Penited, we've seen them gifted penalties for far less.
Yesterday was another example of incidents that split fans.
For me, that isn't improving the game. Whether he was offside by a fraction or not, it didn't impact anyone in terms of getting an advantage and the negative result of it for the game far outweighs the benefit.
For others, they think that technically correct decisions are the be all and end all - nothing else matters, and they support it.
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 11 minutes ago
Oliver is a well known Newcastle fan, so no surprise he didn't want to give us the penalty, even though it was clear as day, given the Toon could potentially catch us in the table.
The Kulu pen incident is 100% given to Varpool or Penited, we've seen them gifted penalties for far less.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stop
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
Yesterday was another example of incidents that split fans.
For me, that isn't improving the game. Whether he was offside by a fraction or not, it didn't impact anyone in terms of getting an advantage and the negative result of it for the game far outweighs the benefit.
For others, they think that technically correct decisions are the be all and end all - nothing else matters, and they support it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no problem that he was offside, no matter how close it was, and i would love the semi-automatic process that gives an almost instant answer that is very hard to question.
Why they didnt look that the Tomiyasu "block" is what i question. Even if they rule it as an unintentional action, they didnt look at it. They just looked at the offside when the ball was kicked.
Was due process followed? because it didnt seem like it was which then just erodes more faith in these clowns getting the decisions right
Sign in if you want to comment
NLD - VAR/Oliver
Page 1 of 2
posted on 29/4/24
Benzema had a goal ruled out in the 2022 UCL final in a similar way.
Two LFC players converged on the ball and both touched it, and it deflected into Benzema’s path. He was offside and the LFC touches were deemed deflections rather than deliberate plays on the football.
posted on 29/4/24
Not sure what the ruling is on the offiside but at least they were consistent in that they drew the line on Micky at the point of contact from Porro. If that against us I would say it fair.
Kulu on the pen
When asked after the game whether he felt he should have been a penalty in his favour, he said: "I don’t remember. I just play. If I fall down there’s a reason why I did it. I don’t remember if it was or not."
The refs got both decisions right. The pen would have been soft as anything if it was given.
We all moan about if it was given against us.
posted on 29/4/24
It’s definitely a pen on Kulusevski. Without the knock on his ankle he gets the ball properly.
Every post match thing I’ve seen from pundits have said it’s a pen.
posted on 29/4/24
I think the scrutiny is so high now because VAR has eliminated the accepted margin for error, that officials are hiding behind each other to avoid criticism. If an on field ref allows VAR to make the decision then the criticism, should it be wrong, is fired at Stockley Park. Equally VAR officials are letting things go by using the 'not clear and obvious' excuse when in actual fact, it's just about avoiding criticism.
So what we're now seeing is VAR only overturning the blatantly obvious decisions and on field refs hardly making any critical decisions at all. That's led to a standard drop amongst all officials because they can't make hard decisions themselves.
Then there's linesman. Their ability to correctly call offsides has gone because they're used to keeping the flag down. If an offside attack isn't called and they then get a corner from which they score from, it's an unfair situation.
The whole thing is a total mess. I was one of those that thought VAR was a good thing but I've completely changed my mind now. I've really had enough of it. Football is so much worse now than it used to be.
Ange is right. The reals refs are no longer on the pitch. They're just figures that represent the real decision makers, 100 miles away on a computer.
posted on 29/4/24
And specific to the incidents you speak of, I can see why that was given offside because although they played the ball, they didn't actively look to pass in that direction. They were deflections on the way to getting to VDV. If Tomiyasu had booted the ball and it rebounded against Gabriel and into his path, you'd have a case but it kind of deflected off both. That said, Romero has a point. We had exactly the same circumstance against West Ham and the goal stood so even though I can see why it's not given as a goal, there's no consistency.
posted on 29/4/24
I'm not sure if I'm the only who has seen this, but I think the biggest error by the ref / VAR was romero's header off the post.
Watch the highlights below. The arsenal defender turns away from the ball and pushes Romero out of the way as he is heading the ball, which means he heads it later than he intends to. There is absolutely no intention to play the ball, he's just focussed on pushing romero.
I know it sounds petty, but honestly watch the replay on the highlights below (from the camera in the goal) and tell me how that isn't a foul?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwvRYMuH4Ew
posted on 29/4/24
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm not sure if I'm the only who has seen this, but I think the biggest error by the ref / VAR was romero's header off the post.
Watch the highlights below. The arsenal defender turns away from the ball and pushes Romero out of the way as he is heading the ball, which means he heads it later than he intends to. There is absolutely no intention to play the ball, he's just focussed on pushing romero.
I know it sounds petty, but honestly watch the replay on the highlights below (from the camera in the goal) and tell me how that isn't a foul?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwvRYMuH4Ew
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about contact with the ball. It's very similar to the one against Arsenal a couple of seasons back when Son or Kane was pushed to the ground before they could get a header off. Might have been Rob Holding. The difference is that Romero got his header off. If he'd gone up for it and not got his shot in, it might have been given. It's the same principle as a player staying on his feet, like Kulu. You get nothing for honesty these days.
posted on 29/4/24
Get what you mean fridge, but Romero ends up heading the ball later than he meant to. Which means the ball hits the post, rather than going in. When he heads it he has been pushed out of the position he would have been in - it just feels like a mugging!
posted on 29/4/24
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 2 minutes ago
Get what you mean fridge, but Romero ends up heading the ball later than he meant to. Which means the ball hits the post, rather than going in. When he heads it he has been pushed out of the position he would have been in - it just feels like a mugging!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep it does. But like a player through on goal, if he's clipped and goes down, he'll get a pen. If he's clipped but gets his shot off, he won't get it. The rules suck.
posted on 29/4/24
A block is counted as a "save", so no real control of how you play the ball. Refs should consider speed of shot, distance, chance to react and decide if the blocker has a reasonable opportunity to make a controlled play of the ball.
We had one this season where Beto cut out a square pass and played the ball 40 yards to Nketiah. Even this was deemed a deflection rather than a controlled action.
With the Kulu penalty shout, he changed direction and it was more a "coming together" than anything. Trossard didn't initiate contact, so once the ref doesn't give it VAR shouldn't. I feel his dive earlier in the game probably counted against him, and Maddison didn't help the situation with his dive. On the subject of Maddison, how bad was he? Probably the worst player on the pitch and his play acting to try and get Tomiyasu sent off wasn't very convincing at all. He will be lucky to get in the England squad even with 26 places.
posted on 29/4/24
Kulu's defo wasn't a penalty.
The guy after him was cleanly tackled by Rice.
VDV was offside.
We were the better team by far and it wasn't because of VAR/ ref why we won
posted on 29/4/24
VAR will cost most teams at some point. Yes it is pants an my opinion it should not be a part of football. It's ruined the match experience for most fans and we cannot enjoy the game for what it is anymore.
Having said that we cannot become reliant on VAR to give us the outcome we want. It will never work like that unless you are one of the favoured few teams. .... we know who they are.
Instead we should focus on why we are losing games and shipping goals and that is 100% at Anges door.... he needs to stop being stuborn and fix it else I fear for him and we will be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.
posted on 29/4/24
Actually I’ve just seen the Bowen goal that was similar in the West Ham game. Difference was he was miles inside when the shot was taken. Not sure what Romero has seen there unless he doesn’t know what offside actually means.
posted on 29/4/24
Onside, not inside. Damn autocorrect
posted on 29/4/24
comment by JimmyGreaves (U21183)
posted 34 minutes ago
VAR will cost most teams at some point. Yes it is pants an my opinion it should not be a part of football. It's ruined the match experience for most fans and we cannot enjoy the game for what it is anymore.
Having said that we cannot become reliant on VAR to give us the outcome we want. It will never work like that unless you are one of the favoured few teams. .... we know who they are.
Instead we should focus on why we are losing games and shipping goals and that is 100% at Anges door.... he needs to stop being stuborn and fix it else I fear for him and we will be looking for a new manager sooner rather than later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's about 3 threads discussing Spurs/Ange tactics etc. Feel free to contribute on those,
This one is about refereeing and VAR.
posted on 29/4/24
As far as I understood it, if the defender makes a deliberate action i.e. tried to block/tackle the ball, then the player cannot be offside. Tomiyasu deliberately did that, its not like the ball just hit him.
The fact this weren’t really discussed or highlighted is a problem
posted on 29/4/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 38 minutes ago
Actually I’ve just seen the Bowen goal that was similar in the West Ham game. Difference was he was miles inside when the shot was taken. Not sure what Romero has seen there unless he doesn’t know what offside actually means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems a bit daft to to me.
A player can get a full block on a shot and that is not considered as deliberate playing of the ball? And who decides when you have full control.
Ive always thought that an offside player tapping in a rebound is hardly fair. The ball isnt meant for him, its a shot, it rebounds off keeper or post, away from the goal to someone who taps it is. Never thought that as fair. The law is an ass
It does boil my pissss when a ref bottles a decision like Oliver did and to be fair to Spurs we have been on the wrong end of quite a few marginal calls this season (1 penalty before yesterday is testament to that). Why isnt Rice even getting booked for that. It's just reckless. Why wasnt he booked earlier when he blatantly kicked the ball away, right in front of the ref. Refs
posted on 29/4/24
comment by BISS Bash BOSSED (U8366)
posted 11 minutes ago
As far as I understood it, if the defender makes a deliberate action i.e. tried to block/tackle the ball, then the player cannot be offside. Tomiyasu deliberately did that, its not like the ball just hit him.
The fact this weren’t really discussed or highlighted is a problem
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed. there was 8-10 yards between Porro and that block so time to react.
But the fact it wasnt even part of the VAR review is what confuses me. Don't they have to consider the deliberate (or not) nature of the action that lead the ball to be at VDVs feet.
posted on 29/4/24
Indeed. there was 8-10 yards between Porro and that block so time to react.
_____
So less than a wall for a free kick?
posted on 29/4/24
I think that would be a poor interpretation of what Tomiyasu tried to do, an attempted block from a shot shouldn't count as him trying to play the ball or whatever. Its not like the Lovren incident where he went to clear the ball and miskicked it.
I have always been on the record regarding close decisions, VAR and offsides that I don't think the technology has the margin of error to say that offsides as close of that they can say are definitively offside.
I think the Kulu one was a penatly, but it really wasn't helped by Maddison continuing his clown act. I very much hope he is dropped.
posted on 29/4/24
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 30 minutes ago
Indeed. there was 8-10 yards between Porro and that block so time to react.
_____
So less than a wall for a free kick?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, well done You're clever !
posted on 29/4/24
Oliver is a well known Newcastle fan, so no surprise he didn't want to give us the penalty, even though it was clear as day, given the Toon could potentially catch us in the table.
The Kulu pen incident is 100% given to Varpool or Penited, we've seen them gifted penalties for far less.
posted on 29/4/24
Yesterday was another example of incidents that split fans.
For me, that isn't improving the game. Whether he was offside by a fraction or not, it didn't impact anyone in terms of getting an advantage and the negative result of it for the game far outweighs the benefit.
For others, they think that technically correct decisions are the be all and end all - nothing else matters, and they support it.
posted on 29/4/24
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 11 minutes ago
Oliver is a well known Newcastle fan, so no surprise he didn't want to give us the penalty, even though it was clear as day, given the Toon could potentially catch us in the table.
The Kulu pen incident is 100% given to Varpool or Penited, we've seen them gifted penalties for far less.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stop
posted on 29/4/24
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
Yesterday was another example of incidents that split fans.
For me, that isn't improving the game. Whether he was offside by a fraction or not, it didn't impact anyone in terms of getting an advantage and the negative result of it for the game far outweighs the benefit.
For others, they think that technically correct decisions are the be all and end all - nothing else matters, and they support it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no problem that he was offside, no matter how close it was, and i would love the semi-automatic process that gives an almost instant answer that is very hard to question.
Why they didnt look that the Tomiyasu "block" is what i question. Even if they rule it as an unintentional action, they didnt look at it. They just looked at the offside when the ball was kicked.
Was due process followed? because it didnt seem like it was which then just erodes more faith in these clowns getting the decisions right
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