Chance. I fear there are too many Sun readers out there. That will believe the below article, when it’s only presenting one part of the story and not even coming close to doing justice to how well Corbyn handled himself.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3676866/jeremy-corbyn-squirms-over-ira-and-the-queen-during-live-tv-debate-as-theresa-may-proves-she-is-the-only-credible-choice-for-number-10/
The worst offender last night was actually Paxman who (probably cos he couldn’t find any fault with the manifesto) attacked Corbyn for not putting stuff in the manifesto. He cut across Corbyn at every opportunity yet gave our glorious P.M. all the time to answer the questions she could possibly ask for.
I actually find myself hoping Labour win, which I could never imagine in 1992. 2 main reasons………..
Austerity isn’t working and it only seems to be impacting the people have very little to begin with.
It would really take away some of Murdoch’s power in this country whilst at the same time sticking 2 fingers up at the establishment in a way even Brexit never could.
Staunch Labour supporters used to say things like “The Tories think of the working classes as vermin, 2nd class citizens who exist solely to keep them in their privileged worlds." I never used to believe it, I really am starting to see where they’re coming from.
What I don’t understand is why are News Group so for the Tories? Does a Labour Party that is almost back to what it was originally set up to be, really threaten News Group? Surely not? Is it that they feel Corbyn would block Fox from purchasing Sky? Surely that’s not a call for the Government but the monopolies commission to decide on?!
Corbyn - the poor old sod doesn't stand a
posted on 31/5/17
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/5/17
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/5/17
comment by This Is Futile (U20804)
posted 1 minute ago
I am not a Tory so turning this into a partisan debate is of little interest to me. I will be voting for them solely because I trust them more over Brexit, otherwise I would have spoiled my ballot.
Let's see what's wrong with the far-left.
Well, chiefly that despite the shallow rhetoric of its low rent speakers, it's not remotely progressive or tolerant. From terrorist supporting, to free speech denying, to lousy economics, to identity politics and to ridiculous isolationist foreign policies, they're just a ghastly bunch.
Doesn't help that I have a black conservative friend who was called an Uncle Tom by a so-called far-left progressive, and Jewish friends who have been driven out the Labour Party by the Hamas favouring nonsense of Corbyn.
When it comes to Corbyn specifically I will just leave this there:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/shouldnt-vote-jeremy-corbyn/
And please, the Conservatives are radical? They're a bunch of stodgy Blairites for the most part. They want spend far too much government money!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Conservatives are just as radical. From their dementia tax and social care policies, to cutting corporation tax, austerity and what will likely be raising VAT and National Insurance. I wouldn't say they this government is anything like Blairites actually. There is certainly more of a drive from the Conservatives to shrink the size of government and increase privatization. Also, Blair would never walk away from a deal with the EU, whereas much of the Conservatives happily would.
The issues you give with "far left", can be seen almost anywhere else on the spectrum. The Centre and Right, have quite openly supported Saudi Arabia - an exporter of terrorism and a religious fundamentalist state. They also can be just as extreme in its views towards freedom of speech - as the only party which wants to do any policing is the Conservatives with its regulated internet. Also, I'm sorry but isolationist policies mainly came from the right, not left. And their "lousy" economic model can be found in most of the Nordic countries to some degree, so there is credibility to it, but the devil will be in the details. And you cannot claim the Conservative government has had a very good track record with the economy either, so it seems weird to discriminate one side and not the other.
For me there is issues with both manifestos, but I much prefer the looks of Labour's as much of it is costed, in comparison the conservatives is incredibly vague.
Neither party leaders are what I would describe as the best or political heavy weights. Corbyn is too stubborn, often says the wrong thing, and naive to a certain degree. Whereas, May is flustered, awkward and is known for U-turns. I would much prefer both parties to campaign on their manifesto's and policies, and so far Corbyn has been doing this. Whereas, with May she has been campaigning on a cult of personality, which is quite sad because she doesn't have one.
posted on 31/5/17
posted on 31/5/17
Given the current state of both the parties and the leaders, Corbyn and Labour are a countrymile a better to have leading the country than the Conservatives, with a Leader who has changed her mind and flip flopped over every major decision since she has been leader. Possibly the worse Leader ever of the Conservative Party ever, and they have had some duff ones. Constantly getting caught out with lies, and nothing she says can ever be taken as Gospel, because she changes her mind far too often. Not that hard a decision really who to vote for.
posted on 31/5/17
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/5/17
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/5/17
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 31/5/17
comment by This Is Futile (U20804)
posted 4 hours, 33 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by This Is Futile (U20804)
posted 1 minute ago
I am not a Tory so turning this into a partisan debate is of little interest to me. I will be voting for them solely because I trust them more over Brexit, otherwise I would have spoiled my ballot.
Let's see what's wrong with the far-left.
Well, chiefly that despite the shallow rhetoric of its low rent speakers, it's not remotely progressive or tolerant. From terrorist supporting, to free speech denying, to lousy economics, to identity politics and to ridiculous isolationist foreign policies, they're just a ghastly bunch.
Doesn't help that I have a black conservative friend who was called an Uncle Tom by a so-called far-left progressive, and Jewish friends who have been driven out the Labour Party by the Hamas favouring nonsense of Corbyn.
When it comes to Corbyn specifically I will just leave this there:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/shouldnt-vote-jeremy-corbyn/
And please, the Conservatives are radical? They're a bunch of stodgy Blairites for the most part. They want spend far too much government money!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Conservatives are just as radical. From their dementia tax and social care policies, to cutting corporation tax, austerity and what will likely be raising VAT and National Insurance. I wouldn't say they this government is anything like Blairites actually. There is certainly more of a drive from the Conservatives to shrink the size of government and increase privatization. Also, Blair would never walk away from a deal with the EU, whereas much of the Conservatives happily would.
The issues you give with "far left", can be seen almost anywhere else on the spectrum. The Centre and Right, have quite openly supported Saudi Arabia - an exporter of terrorism and a religious fundamentalist state. They also can be just as extreme in its views towards freedom of speech - as the only party which wants to do any policing is the Conservatives with its regulated internet. Also, I'm sorry but isolationist policies mainly came from the right, not left. And their "lousy" economic model can be found in most of the Nordic countries to some degree, so there is credibility to it, but the devil will be in the details. And you cannot claim the Conservative government has had a very good track record with the economy either, so it seems weird to discriminate one side and not the other.
For me there is issues with both manifestos, but I much prefer the looks of Labour's as much of it is costed, in comparison the conservatives is incredibly vague.
Neither party leaders are what I would describe as the best or political heavy weights. Corbyn is too stubborn, often says the wrong thing, and naive to a certain degree. Whereas, May is flustered, awkward and is known for U-turns. I would much prefer both parties to campaign on their manifesto's and policies, and so far Corbyn has been doing this. Whereas, with May she has been campaigning on a cult of personality, which is quite sad because she doesn't have one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, the radical aspect is having government spending well over 30 percent of GDP.
And again, you fail to address my point. Like a typical far left lunatic instead of addressing the problems of your own house, you engage in the whataboutery of Saudi Arabia.
Corbyn hasn't found a terrorist that isn't his mate yet. His coalition with groups such as Stop The War (read: Lose The War) and BDS (read: boycott the Jews), are examples of a complete failure of moral perspective. His support of the Irish Republican Army troubles me much more than the Tories and Saudi Arabia - which is an horrendous alliance made due to the diminishing status of Britain in the world and the desperation for business with weapons and oil. Corbyn CHOSE to support heinous groups. There's a big difference, he did so with no imperative to do so other than his own "conscience".
Also blaming the West for Islamism is indulgent nonsense that does nothing for oppressed minorities in the Middle East and is the epitome of isolationism, alongside giving up Gibraltar, The Falklands and cutting Scotland out of the Union. Much more damaging notions of isolationism than the EU.
I also take it you didn't see Corbyn mess up the figures yesterday. As for fully costed? Pah. Nowhere near true, it's built on fantasy assumptions of tax collection without proof and would bankrupt the country.
Also comparing the internet surveillance issue, which Labour voted through in big numbers with the Tories last year, to the intimidation, abuse and identity politics nastiness of the far left is so pathetic it beggars belief.
I also find it interesting you refer to Nordic countries, yet all the economies larger than our own would have no interest in replicating Scandinavian economic policies and for a good reason
Why don't you actually try reading the piece I linked you rather than giving reheated tripe as your best arguments?
The notion that Tories are making huge cuts is largely a mythical fallacious fantasy falsehood. I have no love for the Tories, because I think they've been far too soft on the ridiculous size of our welfare state.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really have time to respond to all of this post, but I understand your overall point. I'm not going to pretend not to be concerned about Corbyn's personal views on foreign policy, however he is willing to follow the parties line on areas such as Nato, which shows he might not be as ideological as he was in the past and willing to compromise now he is leader.
Also, to be frank you would have to be a hardline libertarian to think that government spending around 30% of GDP is extreme. UK's in 2015 was 40%, only Ireland of the OECD countries is below 30%. In addition, I think you will find a lot of countries and parties have looked to the Nordic model, and you will find elements of their policies in use elsewhere. Take education, where Estonia took parts of the Finnish education system.
The only person who is indulging in whataboutery is yourself, I recognise the flaws with Corbyn, but I only dislike the hypocrisy of giving a easy ride to the conservatives. I don't argue on behalf on his views, because I don't agree with him.
I also find it funny, you are talking to me as if I'm ideologically left. I'm not. I have voted differently depending on what I thought was pragmatic and best. Since the Conservatives have offered up a half baked manifesto with no costing really at all, then I do not feel comfortable voting for them.
Lastly, I do not need your news paper magazine or a video from Nick Cohen, there are more interesting commentators to be found.
I enjoy some of the commentators of the right, but these days they seem to indulge in tribalism. Take the video you just linked me, it's fair to change your opinion, but the way in which right-wingers would paint the left in acting in particular way, is just regressive. Politics is a broad church, where people can hold differing opinions. Holding a political belief is not like choosing a football team.
But I take it you are a hardline libertarian, who will not alter their opinion on the welfare state. To suggest that the Conservatives have been soft on the welfare state is laughable to be honest, because following a extreme approach would only damage the economy significantly!
posted on 31/5/17
Comment Deleted by Site Moderator